[Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
Ted Kochanski
tedpkphd at gmail.com
Wed Feb 15 06:58:58 PST 2023
All,
Its more complicated -- in a vacuum yes the spreading is easily predictable
However in a gas with enough power the laser beam can essentially make a
"virtual fiber optic" by the heating of the air in the core changing the
index of refraction of the beam
If the power density is really high the air will "breakdown" and the core
of the path will be ionized gas changing everything you heard about in
grade school physics
Ted
On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 8:53 AM Wayne Sharfin <wsharfin at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, all beams will spread from diffraction. If the beam is extremely
> powerful then it may not need to focused as much. The farfield
> diffraction half-angle is ~ wavelength/(diameter of beam waist). For a
> Gaussian laser beam the "diameter" is taken to be pi x beam radius where
> the beam radius is measured when the intensity has dropped to 1/e2 of the
> maximum.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 8:30 AM <jjrudy1 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> A beam of light, even a coherent one, spreads with distance. The balloon
>> was 60000 feet in the air and not likely directly over the shooter. Assume
>> that it would not work. This is a defensive machine to protect an airbase,
>> say
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Isenberg <smisenberg at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 11:54 PM
>> *To:* jjrudy1 at comcast.net
>> *Cc:* Michael Alexander <mna.ma at yahoo.com>; carllazarus at comcast.net; Ted
>> Kochanski <tedpkphd at gmail.com>; Drew King <dking65 at kingconsulting.us>;
>> Lex Computer Group <lctg at lists.toku.us>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
>>
>>
>>
>> So it could be that it might have been effective but they decided not to
>> use it to keep its capability secret, right?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 10:14 PM <jjrudy1 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> Classified power and distance
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Michael Alexander <mna.ma at yahoo.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:09 PM
>> *To:* jjrudy1 at comcast.net; carllazarus at comcast.net; 'Ted Kochanski' <
>> tedpkphd at gmail.com>; 'Drew King' <dking65 at kingconsulting.us>
>> *Cc:* 'Steve Isenberg' <smisenberg at gmail.com>; 'Lex Computer Group' <
>> lctg at lists.toku.us>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
>>
>>
>>
>> • I’m not surprised that the laser system could shoot down drones.
>> However, the article omitted info about the laser-drone distances at which
>> the system was effective*.
>>
>>
>>
>> • Shooting down mortar shells: The article omits details about the
>> test. Did the system know, ahead of time, where the mortar shell came from
>> (in the real world, it wouldn’t)? How wide an area can the system protect?*
>>
>>
>>
>> – Mike Alexander
>>
>>
>>
>> * I wouldn’t be surprised if the answers were classified, and reasonably
>> so.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2023, 5:32 PM, jjrudy1 at comcast.net wrote:
>>
>> Raytheon is building a product (might already be in production) to take
>> down drones and blind some incoming stuff.
>> https://www.designdevelopmenttoday.com/industries/military/news/22236190/raytheon-shoots-down-drones-mortars-with-highenergy-laser#:~:text=The%20DE%20M%2DSHORAD%20effort,soldiers%20against%20various%20aerial%20threats.&text=Raytheon%20Intelligence%20%26%20Space's%20high%2Denergy,military%20missions%20and%20civil%20defense
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> It is ground-based and of course the beam spreads over distance
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* LCTG <lctg-bounces+jjrudy1=comcast.net at lists.toku.us> *On Behalf
>> Of *carllazarus at comcast.net
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:26 PM
>> *To:* 'Ted Kochanski' <tedpkphd at gmail.com>; 'Drew King' <
>> dking65 at kingconsulting.us>
>> *Cc:* 'Steve Isenberg' <smisenberg at gmail.com>; 'Lex Computer Group' <
>> lctg at lists.toku.us>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Ted. The big fusion announcement by DOE of generating 3
>> megajoules from input of 2 megajoules delivered to the target was
>> underwhelming because they used 300 megajoules to power the laser. If they
>> can achieve the needed factor of 150 improvement in the laser then the
>> airborne laser should be a cinch. 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Carl
>>
>> *From:* LCTG <lctg-bounces+carllazarus=comcast.net at lists.toku.us> *On
>> Behalf Of *Ted Kochanski
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2023 4:07 PM
>> *To:* Drew King <dking65 at kingconsulting.us>
>> *Cc:* Steve Isenberg <smisenberg at gmail.com>; Lex Computer Group <
>> lctg at lists.toku.us>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> The good folks at the Missile Defense Agency will have to stand in for
>> Acme-Laser
>>
>> from a relatively recent article
>>
>> Return Of The ABL? Missile Defense Agency Works On Laser Drone
>>
>> By SYDNEY J. FREEDBERG JR.
>> on August 17, 2015 at 4:00 AM
>>
>>
>> https://breakingdefense.com/2015/08/return-of-the-abl-missile-defense-agency-works-on-laser-drone/
>>
>>
>>
>> HUNTSVILLE, ALA.: Three years after the Missile Defense Agency mothballed
>> its massive Airborne Laser, MDA is planning to reboot the concept for a new
>> era.
>>
>> The old ABL was Boeing 747 with a human crew and tanks of toxic chemicals
>> to generate power. The new idea a high-altitude, long-endurance drone armed
>> with a more compact electrically powered laser...
>> “The problem with boost phase is…you’ve got to get close enough,” Frank
>> Kendall, the Pentagon’s procurement chief, told reporters at the Space &
>> Missile Defense conference here...” But if you’re close enough to shoot at
>> a rocket right after it launches from enemy territory, you’re probably
>> close enough for the enemy to shoot you...The Missile Defense Agency will
>> take an “incremental, step-wise, knowledge-based” approach this time,
>> pledged the MDA director, Vice Adm. James Syring, in remarks to the
>> Huntsville conference. “It is a very different approach than we did in the
>> past of just leaping to something and investing everything we had.”... MDA
>> will conduct experiments and review alternatives until 2018-2019, when
>> Syring said it will pick “which technologies we think have the most
>> promise.” Then a “low-power laser demonstrator” will fly circa 2021. When
>> the full-power system will enter service is an open question, not answered
>> in Syring’s brief... In a successful 2010 test, ABL shot down a ballistic
>> missile “tens of kilometers” away, Syring said, using about a megawatt of
>> power. For the illustrative concept of operations the MDA director briefed
>> at the conference — which he emphasized was not the only option — “we need
>> to be hundreds of kilometers [from the target] in a platform that can go
>> much higher and stay up for much longer.”...The manned Airborne Laser maxed
>> out at an altitude of about 40,000 feet, where clouds and turbulence made
>> it harder to keep the beam on the target. “65,000 feet is where we think we
>> need to be,” said Syring, where the air is so thin that a laser beam can
>> reach much farther...What matters is not just maximum power, but how much
>> weight it takes to generate (power density), especially when you’re trying
>> to fit the laser on an aircraft. The Airborne Laser took 55 kilograms
>> (about 120 pounds) to generate a kilowatt of laser power, Syring said,
>> which is why a megawatt (1,000 kW) took a 747. Electric lasers currently in
>> the lab take 35-40 kilograms per kilowatt, and the MDA research program
>> plans to drive that down by a factor of ten, to 3-5 kg/kW. MDA’s ultimate
>> goal is 2 kg/kW, which would make a one-megawatt weight 5,000 pounds,
>> something a drone could carry... “If it had been easy we would done it by
>> now,” Syring said. But given the rapid progress in laser technology, he
>> went on, “it’s not a huge reach.”... Unlike a manned aircraft whose crew
>> must land and rest, a drone can stay aloft for 24 hours or more. Unlike a
>> chemically powered laser, or conventional missiles and guns for that
>> matter, an electric laser can keep firing as long as the aircraft’s
>> generators are running. A mid-air refueling both keeps the drone flying and
>> “reloads” its ability to generate power for the laser. The combination of
>> unmanned endurance and unlimited shots means a single drone could stay on
>> station for days, instead of needing multiple manned aircraft to come and
>> go in rotation...What’s more, an electrical laser can dial its power up and
>> down for different targets at different ranges...
>>
>>
>>
>> “Thinking of this as a ballistic missile killer may be too narrow,”
>> Gunzinger [ laser expert and advocate at the Center for Strategic and
>> Budgetary Assessments ] said. If MDA can actually solve the boost-phase
>> intercept problem, hard as that is, it will have built a laser-armed
>> aircraft that’s lethally adaptable to other missions as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> So perhaps there is something in the works at MDA which will eventually
>> be able to shoot down balloons at 20 to 30 km
>>
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 2:28 PM Drew King <dking65 at kingconsulting.us>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm thinking the government has no contacts at Acme laser cannon Corp.
>> Where oh where is Wile E. Coyote?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/14/2023 2:19 PM, Steve Isenberg wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I'm thinking that the balloon could have been punctured (by laser or
>> cannon), this could have been done around when it was first discovered.
>> They could have analyzed the drifting and punctured the balloon when its
>> descent would have had the least likelihood of causing damage when it met
>> the ground.
>>
>> So this would be long before it passed over to the Atlantic; and in fact
>> helicopters could have monitored its descent and pinpointed it once it hit
>> ground.
>>
>> -steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 1:35 PM Michael Alexander <mna.ma at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>>
>>
>> What you may be missing (although its importance may be debatable) is
>> that if somehow one ‘pricked’ the balloon, it would continue to drift
>> ‘horizontally’ for some distance. It would land farther from shore, in
>> deeper water, and be harder to retrieve.
>>
>>
>>
>> — Mike Alexander
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2023, 1:00 PM, Ted Kochanski <tedpkphd at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Balloon seems to be white -- so probably not that easy to "poke a hole"
>> with a laser -- you need to get a fair amount of power onto the balloon
>> MW/sq m and hold it there for enough time to evaporate the plastic
>>
>> We have some R&D tech that could do that at the right kind of range --
>> but it might not be in the right place to be used because of the curvature
>> of the earth
>>
>>
>>
>> Cannon fire from a fighter would seem to be the best approach
>>
>>
>>
>> Ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: *Steve Isenberg* <smisenberg at gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 12:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] ufo
>> To: Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Lex Computer Group <lctg at lists.toku.us>
>>
>>
>>
>> So they shot down the balloon with a missile, it totally deflated, and
>> fell into the water where they have to search to find it, and the impact
>> with the water may have damaged things.
>>
>>
>>
>> Did anyone consider: Poke a hole in the balloon (using a laser perhaps)
>> that would cause it to descend rather than fall rapidly to the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> (Or am I missing something?)
>>
>> -steve
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 11:46 AM Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Current terms: UAP = Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon. IAP = Identified
>> Aerial Phenomenon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Current status of balloons = deflated. (Formerly known as "shot down".)
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Bob Primak
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 10:54:27 AM EST, <jjrudy1 at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> John Rudy
>>
>>
>>
>> 781-861-0402
>>
>> 781-718-8334 cell
>>
>> 13 Hawthorne Lane
>>
>> Bedford MA
>>
>> jjrudy1 at comcast.net
>>
>>
>>
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>> --
>> Drew King
>>
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