[Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Reactiona from home to today's meeting

Mitchell I. Wolfe mwolfe at vinebrook.com
Thu Dec 12 07:29:47 PST 2024


I used to enjoy post meeting lunch discussions with Charlie Holbrow, Eli 
Brookner, and my dad who were all Columbia alumni. Sadly they are not 
around anymore.

I still go to the Wednesday Lexington senior lunches post our meeting. A 
few of our colleagues attend on an irregular basis.

Menus and other details are here: http://lexingtonma.gov/seniors

You need to sign up in advance for the $2 noontime meals served in the 
large room near the main Lexington Community Center entrance. You don't 
need to be a Lexington resident. I usually book early Monday morning by 
leaving a message on their voicemail.

"Half of life is showing up..."

-- Mitch

On 2024-12-12 09:32, Peter Albin via LCTG wrote:

> Amen
> Peter
> 
>> On Dec 12, 2024, at 9:02 AM, Harry Forsdick via LCTG 
>> <lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> 
> Good point about what you see in the meeting room regarding what sounds 
> you hear from local speakers and what you see on the screen of their 
> videos.  That is a fundamental problem that cannot be solved.  But the 
> solution is for the people intge meeting room to look atctge actual 
> person speaking.  People in remote locations will not experience this 
> problem.
> 
> I'd like to encourage members of the group to attend as many meetings 
> as possible in the meeting room because there are a lot of good 
> conversations that happen before and after the meetings. One of the 
> tragedies of COVID has been the destruction of social groups, and I 
> believe that has happened to our group.  Being present in the room when 
> possible helps re-establish these bonds.
> 
> I also think the lunches also help.
> 
> I wonder if we should start up a new activity of visiting interesting 
> STEM places.  We live in a special place (Boston) and I think we should 
> take advantage of it.
> 
> More later.
> 
> -- Harry
> 
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2024 at 7:52 AM Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> From the live room at the LCC I did notice that when we saw on the 
> screen our speaker, her voice and video were very much out of sync. 
> That is a Zoom artifact.
> 
> I have started attending in person when there is a live speaker, but 
> will probably not attend live for all-video meetings.
> 
> We need to boost our in person audience numbers. This influences which 
> speakers we can get, and makes for a much better presentation and 
> question and answer dynamic.
> 
> But if you are sick, by all means STAY HOME.
> 
> -- Bob Primak
> 
> On Wednesday, December 11, 2024 at 06:16:28 PM EST, Harry Forsdick via 
> LCTG <lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I have some thoughts about the ability of non-technical people to start 
> up Hybrid Meetings.  Another way of saying that is we can make starting 
> a Hybrid Meeting just like turning on the lights.  (Of course, note 
> that it is not so easy to turn on the lights in LexCC Room 237 because 
> of the fancy dimming panel at the front of the room :-)
> 
> Now that the equipment is permanently installed in the meeting room, 
> the set of things that must be done to get a meeting started has been 
> reduced significantly.
> 
> I think we can work towards a system which does not need to have a 
> trained Meeting Room Director (e.g., Peter or me) or a Zoom Conference 
> Director (such as you and Barry have served LCTG so admirably over the 
> past many years).  We are getting very close so that anybody (i.e., not 
> just Peter or me) in the meeting room can start the conference by 
> reading a 2 or 3 set cheat sheet posted on the wall next to the touch 
> panels at the front of the room.
> 
> Similarly I think we need to move so that we do not need a Zoom 
> Conference director, the function you and Barry have been performing 
> knowing a lot of very technical knowledge about Zoom.  This will 
> require a second cheat sheet with both instructions for the Presenter 
> on how to:
> 
> * Turn off any audio input or output on their laptop
> * Connect to the LexCC wifi
> * Login to our meeting on Zoom
> * Use the share screen Zoom command to show their presentation
> 
> I realize because we are all humans with different talents, this may 
> seem like a difficult task.  But, I think with a suitable set of 
> defaults based on our experience, we can come up with a Hybrid Meeting 
> Room schema for the Zoom Conferencing software.  We don't have to do 
> this.  It's just that if we want to release you and Barry from being in 
> the position of  always having to be available for our meetings to run 
> successfully, we may need to limit ourselves to a set of default 
> configurations for the Zoom Conferencing software.
> Tim Goncalves and Vince LeRow, the two guys from the Town's IT 
> Department who have done all of the work so far, have initially focused 
> on getting the standard schema for configuring the installed hardware 
> in LexCC Room 237 to work for three different meeting types for which 
> there are buttons on the top touch panel.  Pushing one of those buttons 
> installs scheme of software and hardware settings for each of three 
> type of room usage:
> 
> * Hybrid Meeting
> * The second type that I don't remember
> * The third type that I don't remember
> 
> Your and my comments about tweeks to the Hybrid Meeting configuration 
> are quite consistent on:
> 
> * Locating the Presenter is currently distracting and every other time 
> is incorrect.  Currently it seems to get in a mode where it properly 
> locates the speaker and then shortly thereafter locates the speaker 
> again, this time below the speaker's head. Rinse and Repeat.
> 
> * It would be better if we had two streams coming out of LexCC Room 
> 237:
> 
> * Fixed zoom to the area in the front of the room where the speaker may 
> move
> 
> * Zooming from the front of the room (either left or right side camera) 
> to anyone in the audience who asks a question (i.e., speaks).
> 
> * In addition the Presenter would use their laptop to join the 
> conference as a normal participant -- but with their sound input and 
> output turned off.  The only purpose of the Presenter's laptop is to 
> show the presentation.  Note that I am also saying that the video of 
> the Presenter must be picked up by the equipment permanently installed 
> in the room.  The consequence of using the video of the Presenter's 
> laptop is that the voice and video will not be in sync -- which will 
> drive people crazy.
> 
> That's enough for now -- it's dinner time...
> 
> Regards,
> 
> -- Harry
> 
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 5:11 PM Steve Isenberg <smisenberg at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> Some of my thoughts.
> 
> Given that we were using the microphone in the room, that means that 
> the room camera composite will be chosen by zoom. This is usually not 
> what we want because we'd much rather have the speaker appear. So today 
> we asked our speaker to turn on her laptop camera, and I spotlighted 
> it. As a result, we were seeing her face as she was giving the 
> presentation.
> So anyone who is in the role of host and controlling what is recorded, 
> needs to know that they need to spotlight the person or persons who are 
> speaking and of course, remove someone from the spotlight after they 
> are done talking or asking their questions.
> This is similar to the way a technical Director handles recording a TV 
> show, as he or she is busy selecting the active camera or cameras 
> during a commercial video production.
> 
> The composite camera coming from the room.  It shows a composite of: 
> audience left, audience right, and speaker. This has limited use and is 
> not producing a result that is of the quality that at least I would 
> like.
> This is in part because the images are very small, as there are three 
> images that make up the video.
> It is also because the image that is supposedly of the person speaking, 
> shifts, moves, zooms in and out, at apparently random times.  It 
> sometimes shows the speaker, sometimes shows the speaker and half the 
> audience, and other times shows the feet of the speaker and the 
> audience without showing the speaker's face.  This seems to change at 
> random times during the presentation. It is frustrating if all you want 
> to do is watch the face of the speaker presenting.
> 
> I'm currently producing the video from today's presentation and the 
> speaker is not always spotlighted so you can see several times during 
> the video what the cameras look like coming from the room and I suspect 
> you'll see what I mean.
> 
> WIBNIF. It would be nice if the camera aimed at the speaker stayed 
> aimed at the speaker, all the speaker, and only the speaker, during the 
> course of her presentation.
> WIBNIF It would be nice if there were two feeds coming from the LCC 
> room. One being the speaker and only the speaker; and the other being a 
> composite of the two cameras facing the audience in the room.
> 
> Maybe; the feed coming from the LCC room be only a composite of the two 
> cameras facing the audience. And have the speaker use her camera on her 
> laptop.
> Then, during the program the host could Spotlight the speaker; and when 
> others speak, including those in the audience, the host could add a 
> spotlight (on the other person speaking) or (the feed of the audience 
> when someone from the audience was asking a question or making a 
> comment) in addition to the spotlight on the speaker's computer's 
> camera video. The two would show up side by side in the recording, and 
> life would be good.
> 
> Please pardon my rambling and I hope that this will end up helping.
> -steve
> 
> On Wed, Dec 11, 2024 at 11:55 AM Harry Forsdick via LCTG 
> <lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
> 
> I am writing down my impressions about today's meeting from the 
> perspective of a remote user being involved in a meeting.
> 
> I encourage others who were remote today to respond to these 
> suggestions with your own impressions: feel free to add to or negate 
> what I am saying below.
> 
> -- Harry
> 
> Here are some reactions to the meeting today.  I am writing these in 
> order of observation. Some of the early comments are corrected or 
> improved by the later comments.
> 
> * Initial setup in room 237 is good: there are only a couple of schemes 
> of use (x?, y? and Hybrid -- which is what we want to use), and that is 
> good.  The improvements recommended here are intended to be to the 
> small number of setups -- and in fact only got the Hybrid scheme 
> because that is the only one I have any experience with
> 
> * Sound from Presenter and Audience is muffled.  More for the Audience. 
>  Possible improvement for Presenter is a microphone at front to be 
> closer -- or a lavalier mic to be fed through a mixer to make it part 
> of the one audio stream coming out of the room and thus able to take 
> advantage of the Zoom echo cancellation.
> 
> * Zooming on the Presenter is ineffective because it zooms too much, 
> missing the head of the presenter.  Her own webcam is much better.  
> Following the presenter around the room is not needed.
> 
> * There might be better use of the cameras to not have them zoom, but 
> rather focus on particular parts of the room:
> 
> * Aimed at the front where the presenter will be (performed by the 
> camera at the rear of the room)
> * Aimed at the front  half of the audience (performed by, say, the 
> front left camera)
> 
> * Aimed at the back  half of the audience (performed by, say, the front 
> right camera)
> 
> * There is no need for the meeting room Zoom display to have one 
> participant shown in the upper right corner because that has nothing to 
> do with who is speaking. It looks like the first participant in the 
> conference is chosen arbitrarily to be in this spot.  It doesn't serve 
> any purpose in the meeting room.
> 
> * Cross talking in the meeting room is really annoying because the 
> audio of coming out of the room is already very difficult to listen to.
> 
> * 12 people in the meeting room audience, 10 in the remote audience.
> 
> * This new system, which cost a LOT of money, is better in some ways 
> than our ($800) homebrew system (ease of setup so that anybody can run 
> this system and it is permanently installed.  This is huge.  It means 
> that anybody in the group can control the meeting, not just a couple of 
> people.
> 
> * When the meeting room audience asked a question, the zoomable camera 
> tried to find the person, but the camera only localized the back of the 
> head of the speaker.  This is pretty disappointing.  That is why I 
> suggest a reallocation of the roles of the cameras.
> 
> * Even with all of my complaints about audio and zooming video, the 
> combination of all the features, warts and all, is better than we've 
> had before -- largely because it could be so easy to start the hybrid 
> meeting,
> 
> * Remote attendees' voices are still excellent -- illustrating how bad 
> the sound is from the meeting room.
> 
> * I think it would be better to make the rear camera fixed non zooming 
> so that there is one camera that can see all of the audience, even if 
> it isn't their face.  Let the presenter's image come from their laptop. 
> Devote one of the left and right cameras to the noise source, and leave 
> out the third camera because it takes up too much space in the 
> Hollywood squares grid.  It would be really good to have two or three 
> streams coming out of the meeting room so that each of the room cameras 
> could occupy the full area of a video stream.
> 
> Harry Forsdick [1]
> Town Meeting Member Precinct 7 [2]
> harry at forsdick.com [3]
> www.forsdick.com [4]
> 
> 46 Burlington St.
> Lexington, MA 02420
> (781) 799-6002 (mobile) [5]
> 
> ===============================================
> ::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::
> Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.
> Send to the list: LCTG at lists.toku.us      Message archives: 
> http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/
> To subscribe: email lctg-subscribe at toku.us  To unsubscribe: email 
> lctg-unsubscribe at toku.us
> Future and Past meeting information: http://LCTG.toku.us
> List information: http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us
> This message was sent to s+lctglist at smistuff.com.
> Set your list options: 
> http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/s+lctglist@smistuff.com

===============================================
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.
Send to the list: LCTG at lists.toku.us      Message archives: 
http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/
To subscribe: email lctg-subscribe at toku.us  To unsubscribe: email 
lctg-unsubscribe at toku.us
Future and Past meeting information: http://LCTG.toku.us
List information: http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us

This message was sent to bobprimak at yahoo.com.
Set your list options: 
http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/bobprimak@yahoo.com 
===============================================
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.
Send to the list: LCTG at lists.toku.us      Message archives: 
http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/
To subscribe: email lctg-subscribe at toku.us  To unsubscribe: email 
lctg-unsubscribe at toku.us
Future and Past meeting information: http://LCTG.toku.us
List information: http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us
This message was sent to palbin24 at yahoo.com.
Set your list options: 
http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/palbin24@yahoo.com
===============================================
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.
Send to the list: LCTG at lists.toku.us      Message archives: 
http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/
To subscribe: email lctg-subscribe at toku.us  To unsubscribe: email 
lctg-unsubscribe at toku.us
Future and Past meeting information: http://LCTG.toku.us
List information: http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us
This message was sent to mwolfe at vinebrook.com.
Set your list options: 
http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/mwolfe@vinebrook.com



Links:
------
[1] http://www.forsdick.com/resume/
[2] http://lexingtontmma.org/
[3] 
https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&fs=1&tf=1&to=harry@forsdick.com
[4] http://www.forsdick.com/
[5] callto:17817996002
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/attachments/20241212/491774f6/attachment.htm>


More information about the LCTG mailing list