<html><head></head><body><div class="ydp4f0f3b00yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Jerry -- </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">From your mouth (or keyboard) to God's ears! Absolutely this could be done. But do we have a prayer of a chance in real life? Maybe, and there is always hope.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">-- Bob Primak </div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div><br></div>
</div><div id="yahoo_quoted_9950931961" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div>
On Sunday, April 10, 2022, 12:53:44 PM EDT, Jerome Slate <slatemd@comcast.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="yiv2981003904"><div>
There is the remote possibility that the same AI values about crime
might be used for benevolent purposes. It could be used to signal
areas to develop afternoon programs for at risk children, places to
open job training schools and subsidized centers for parent training
and child care. Unlikely, but possible. <br clear="none">
Jerry Slate<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv2981003904moz-cite-prefix">On 4/9/2022 2:29 PM, Jerry Harris
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div><div><div dir="ltr">
<div>> wouldn't surprise me if zip codes correlate with a
crime. (Probably not with the amount stolen per capita!) It
wouldn't surprise me at all if criminal records of relatives
correlate more strongly with crime</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The bias comes into play by using this data to give people
from certain zip codes or certain families longer sentences.
Or to assign more police officers to certain regions, where in
turn they make more arrests for minor crimes they observe (eg,
broken tail light, etc), and thus feedback misleading data
into the models. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Cathy imagines these algorithms to be used to make
different decisions: </div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">Imagine
if you used recidivist models to provide the at-risk inmates
with counseling and job training while in prison. Or if police
doubled down on foot patrols in high crime zip codes --
working to build relationships with the community instead of
arresting people for minor offenses. </blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">You
might notice there's a human element to these solutions.
Because really that's the key. Algorithms can inform and
illuminate and supplement our decisions and policies. But to
get not-evil results, humans and data really have to work
together.</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">"Big
Data processes codify the past," O'Neil writes. "They do not
invent the future. Doing that requires moral imagination, and
that's something only humans can provide." </blockquote>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/technology/weapons-of-math-destruction/index.html" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">https://money.cnn.com/2016/09/06/technology/weapons-of-math-destruction/index.html</a><br clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Jerry</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv2981003904gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at 12:47
PM Jon Dreyer <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jon@jondreyer.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:jon@jondreyer.org" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">jon@jondreyer.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">
<div>
<p>Not every instance of apparent bias represents bias.
John's example seems like an open-and-shut case of bias,
but Jerry's may not be. Since zip codes correlate with
poverty and poverty correlates with crime, it wouldn't
surprise me if zip codes correlate with crime. (Probably
not with amount stolen per capita!) It wouldn't surprise
me at all if criminal records of relatives correlate more
strongly with crime.</p>
<p>Whether it's ethical to use that data for a given purpose
is a separate question.</p>
<p>-- <br clear="none">
Jon "Bias Sometime" Dreyer<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.passionatelycurious.com">Math
tutor/Computer Science tutor</a><br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://music.jondreyer.com">Jon Dreyer Music</a></p>
<div>On 4/9/22 11:22, Jerry Harris wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">John,
<div>You might find the book by Cathy O'Neil, "Weapons
of Math Destruction," interesting since it contains
more examples in the same vein as the article. The
author attended Lexington High School and gave a talk
about her book at Follen Church several years ago.
Stories such as an algorithm that uses data like zip
code and criminal records of relatives to calculate a
prisoner's likelihood to commit another crime if
released on parole, etc. </div>
<div> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Jerry</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv2981003904gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 9, 2022 at
10:47 AM john rudy <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">jjrudy1@comcast.net</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;" class="yiv2981003904gmail_quote">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="yiv2981003904MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;">I
am taking an AI course and a major issue is
the bias build into some AI systems. If, for
example, you pick new hires from those who
were successful in the past you’ll mostly hire
white males because those were who you mostly
had in the past. Here is a fascinating
article from the course</span></p>
<p class="yiv2981003904MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.wired.com/story/excerpt-from-automating-inequality/" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.wired.com/story/excerpt-from-automating-inequality/</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
===============================================<br clear="none">
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br clear="none">
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br clear="none">
Send to the list: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a>
Message archives: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">
To subscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To
unsubscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br clear="none">
Future and Past meeting information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://LCTG.toku.us">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br clear="none">
List information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">
This message was sent to <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:jerryharri@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jerryharri@gmail.com" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">jerryharri@gmail.com</a>.<br clear="none">
Set your list options: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/jerryharri@gmail.com" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/jerryharri@gmail.com</a></blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset class="yiv2981003904moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="yiv2981003904moz-quote-pre">===============================================
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.
Send to the list: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-abbreviated">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a>
To subscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-abbreviated">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-abbreviated">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a>
Future and Past meeting information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://LCTG.toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://LCTG.toku.us</a>
List information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a>
This message was sent to <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:slatemd@comcast.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:slatemd@comcast.net" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-abbreviated">slatemd@comcast.net</a>.
Set your list options: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/slatemd@comcast.net" class="yiv2981003904moz-txt-link-freetext">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/slatemd@comcast.net</a></pre>
<div id="yiv2981003904yqtfd31166" class="yiv2981003904yqt4530697855"><br clear="none">
</div></div></div><div class="yqt4530697855" id="yqtfd06741">===============================================<br clear="none">::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br clear="none">Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br clear="none">Send to the list: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/private.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">To subscribe: email <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br clear="none">Future and Past meeting information: <a shape="rect" href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br clear="none">List information: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">This message was sent to <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com." href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com.">bobprimak@yahoo.com.</a><br clear="none">Set your list options: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/bobprimak@yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/bobprimak@yahoo.com</a></div></div>
</div>
</div></body></html>