<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Ahh, cause and effect. Exactly the right question. It’s more complicated than you might think. <div class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Fortunately, there are many, many serious people who have thought a lot about this, over thousands of years. Here’s a good podcast on the subject: <a href="https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2022/05/09/196-judea-pearl-on-cause-and-effect/" class="">https://www.preposterousuniverse.com/podcast/2022/05/09/196-judea-pearl-on-cause-and-effect/</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And if we want to have a meaningful conversation about science, we ought to agree on what constitutes empirical observation, experimental evidence, reason, and what we mean by cause and effect. With humility, naturally. It’s not easy. And although we do know A LOT, more than enough to act, IMO, there is still some uncertainty.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">And of course, the science just tells us what we THINK we know about what’s happening and how it works. Public policy, including public health policy such as recommended vaccines, is another matter entirely, based in part on science but not determined by it. It’s more an indicator of how we value one another and our community than it is what we think about viruses and vaccines, for sure. I like to think about how, after public works that brought us clean water and sewage systems, antibiotics and vaccines, NOTHING has had a more net positive effect on humanity than vaccines. We have eradicated smallpox, for crying out loud. Think about that for a minute.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On a personal note, I also suffer an anaphylactic shock when I eat pine nuts. It’s pretty severe. I stop breathing in about 30 minutes. I try hard to avoid them but once and a while they appear in something I eat, generally when I eat out… And I must say, there is no cause and effect more dramatic for me than ingesting even a bit of oil from a single pine nut, reacting, and then experiencing the instantaneous relief from the epinephrine administered IV when I am unable to breathe. It’s a miracle: not supernatural, mind you, but a meaningful intervention, for me anyway. I’ve experienced emergency rooms all over the world. I surely owe my life to international science and public health systems.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Steve Quatrano<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 19, 2022, at 7:46 PM, Jerry Harris <<a href="mailto:jerryharri@gmail.com" class="">jerryharri@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">And one yellow jacket sting this summer brought me closer to death than anything associated with COVID-19 or its preventatives. I now have to carry epi-pens and Benadryl whenever I'm working outdoors. Never reacted before, and did not react earlier this year, after several rounds of mRNA vaccines. This happened before my latest round of the bivalent vaccine. </blockquote><div dir="ltr" class=""><br style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" class=""></div><div class="">I'm glad to hear you survived this encounter. One of my daughters experienced severe reactions to mosquito bites when she was a toddler. She's outgrown this tendency, but it supports your observation that our bodies change and that it's difficult to track with absolute certainty the cause and effect of any reaction we experience. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Jerry</div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 7:40 PM Robert Primak <<a href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com" class="">bobprimak@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=""><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" class=""><div class=""></div>
<div class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">I found the exact same rebuttal as you, Jerry. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">There's a pattern in Conservative rhetoric and source picking. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">This fits that pattern to a "T". </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Look, if you don't want to get vaccinated, go ahead and skip it. I will continue to follow the preponderance of the science and the medical literature, which supports getting boosted with the bivalent vaccines. And continuing to wear masks indoors, except in private homes or with people with whom you live.</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Last I checked, Home Depot still carries and has stock of, N95 masks. The same ones the Conservatives accuse of suffocating us with CO2. So, no matter who has what this winter, I will feel reasonably well protected, both by the mask and by the vaccines.</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">By the way, my N95 mask also makes a great dust filter, as I found out recently while moving a pile of wood chip mulch for a trail improvement project. That pile had decaying leaves in it, which means lots of mold, mildew and spore dust. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">And one yellow jacket sting this summer brought me closer to death than anything associated with COVID-19 or its preventatives. I now have to carry epi-pens and Benadryl whenever I'm working outdoors. Never reacted before, and did not react earlier this year, after several rounds of mRNA vaccines. This happened before my latest round of the bivalent vaccine. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">Sometimes serious health issues arise on their own, out of the blue with no advance signs or warnings. And sometimes these things happen near the time we encounter mRNA vaccines or SARS-CoV-2. Still coincidence, not causality. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">And my heart is still checking out strong and healthy, weeks after my latest booster, bringing my total of mRNA vaccinations to five, if my count is correct.</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class="">-- Bob Primak</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div>
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On Wednesday, October 19, 2022 at 05:35:39 PM EDT, Jerry Harris <<a href="mailto:jerryharri@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">jerryharri@gmail.com</a>> wrote:
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<div class=""><div id="m_47394630368763533yiv6262167667" class="">I stand with Jon. This seems conveniently pro-Barrington Declaration. I also don’t have the expertise in this field to personally refute the claims by the British cardiologist. So I rely on other sources. Here’s one different than that mentioned by Jon. <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Link : <div class=""><a href="https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/article-by-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-made-unsupported-claims-about-benefits-risks-covid-19-vaccination/" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank" class="">https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/article-by-cardiologist-aseem-malhotra-made-unsupported-claims-about-benefits-risks-covid-19-vaccination/</a></div></div><div class=""><div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;text-align:center;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class=""><div style="min-height:1px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""><div style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;color:grey" class="">CLAIM</div><div style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class="">mRNA COVID-19 vaccines might do more harm than good </div></div><div style="min-height:1px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""><div style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;color:grey" class="">VERDICT <span style="display:inline-block;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""></span><span style="font-size:0.9em;padding:3px;border-radius:4px;width:120px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;background-color:rgba(204,204,204,0.5)" class=""><a href="https://sciencefeedback.co/claim-reviews-framework/" style="text-decoration:none;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;color:rgb(6,100,129)" rel="noreferrer noopener" target="_blank" class=""></a></span></span></div><div style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""><img src="https://healthfeedback.org/wp-content/uploads/tags/HTag_Unsupported.png" style="border: 0px; vertical-align: middle; width: 160px; font-family: Raleway, sans-serif;" class=""></div></div></div><div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;text-align:center;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class=""></div><div style="font-size:16px;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;text-align:center;color:rgb(51,51,51)" class=""><div style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif;color:grey" class="">DETAILS</div><div style="text-align:left;font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class=""><b style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class="">Inadequate support</b>: Malhotra’s claim that COVID-19 vaccines might do more harm than good is based on anecdotal evidence and low-quality studies—some of them disputed—that are insufficient to support his claim.<br class=""><b style="font-family:Raleway,sans-serif" class="">Cherry-picking</b>: The article cited mainly studies suggesting a negative effect of COVID-19 vaccines, but didn’t acknowledge the wider body of evidence showing that the vaccines are safe and effective.</div></div></div>
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