<div dir="ltr"><div>Bob,</div><div>I am curious specifically what you mean when you say "
all of these tactics impede the free flow of information. That can also
be problematic. The data silo effect is already an impediment to
research and development in many industries. " Before I retired and worked for some large companies, if I wanted technical information as an engineer, the company paid for it whether it was a book, conference, magazine or technical standard (like ASTM or IEEE). The news organizations that are trying to stay alive through paid subscriptions or ad revenues are not generally the sources of R&D knowledge.</div><div><br></div><div>David Lees<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 1:42 PM Robert Primak <<a href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com">bobprimak@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Many sites have been adopting the same tactics to force people to turn off ad blockers which the subscription sites have been using to force people to pay for subscriptions.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The problem is, all of these tactics impede the free flow of information. That can also be problematic. The data silo effect is already an impediment to research and development in many industries. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-- Bob Primak </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 01:37:52 PM EST, <a href="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" target="_blank">jjrudy1@comcast.net</a> <<a href="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" target="_blank">jjrudy1@comcast.net</a>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif">I suppose one could make a similar argument, then, about ad-blockers</span></p><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif"> </span></p><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624yqt57563"><div><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p><b>From:</b> LCTG <lctg-bounces+jjrudy1=<a href="mailto:comcast.net@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">comcast.net@lists.toku.us</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Primak via LCTG<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 13, 2023 1:35 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> 'David Lees' <<a href="mailto:joeoptics@gmail.com" target="_blank">joeoptics@gmail.com</a>>; <a href="mailto:carllazarus@comcast.net" target="_blank">carllazarus@comcast.net</a><br clear="none"><b>Cc:</b> 'Lex Computer Group' <<a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>>; 'Steve Isenberg' <<a href="mailto:smisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">smisenberg@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Looking for sites blocked by paywalls or remove-ad-blockers</p></div></div><p> </p><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt">Much of the time, I find similar content at sites where I don't have to pay for large volumes of content I will never use.</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt">I agree that if a site has a policy and people try to circumvent that policy, it can impact the ability of the site to fulfill its business model for making money. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt">-- Bob Primak </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></p></div></div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624yahoo_quoted_0826587293"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 01:16:55 PM EST, <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:carllazarus@comcast.net" target="_blank">carllazarus@comcast.net</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Exactly my thought. We may be talking about large entities such as the NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc. but if we want them to continue to exist they need to be able to pay their expenses and make some money.</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">-- Carl</span></p><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624yqt04533"><div style="border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none;border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p><b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> LCTG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-bounces+carllazarus=comcast.net@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-bounces+carllazarus=comcast.net@lists.toku.us</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Lees via LCTG<br clear="none"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 13, 2023 1:12 PM<br clear="none"><b>To:</b> Robert Primak <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bobprimak@yahoo.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>Cc:</b> Lex Computer Group <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>>; Steve Isenberg <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:smisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank">smisenberg@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Looking for sites blocked by paywalls or remove-ad-blockers</span></p></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p><div><p style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">You could also discuss the ethical issues of not paying for things that people trying to make a living are doing?</span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">David Lees <br clear="none">From Pixel 6 Pro</span></p></div></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 1:00 PM Robert Primak via LCTG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">You are NOT committing any crime by using most evasion techniques available to the general public (not tech-savvy hackers).</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">I don't know what Steve has or had in mind, but no one can take any legal actions against anyone for publicly discussing these tactics. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Please refer to You Tube's Terms of Use and Zoom's code of user conduct if in any further doubt. Other sites also have terms of use. </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">-- Bob Primak</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div></div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624m_-7722894219360314806yahoo_quoted_0479514213"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:52:44 PM EST, Steve Isenberg via LCTG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote: </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624m_-7722894219360314806yiv8948318948"><div><div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Gentlepeople,</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">After much consideration, discussing with several people, and consulting with ChatGPT, I've decided <u>not</u> to demonstrate this. We can discuss the situation on Wednesday's Potpourri but I no longer feel comfortable giving a demonstration for legal reasons. My apologies.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I'm open to comments.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">-steve</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Here's what I've learned from ChatGPT:</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Steve asks ChatGPT:</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">suppose I have found a way to get around a paywall without paying or subscribing, or to get around a site's requirement to disable all ad blockers without disabling ad blockers, and I can do this only on my computer and without accessing or tampering with the website. Am I committing a crime or doing something that would subject me to a lawsuit or other legal action by the website owner?</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">ChatGPT responds (edited):</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Circumventing paywalls or other access restrictions without authorization may be a violation of the website's terms of service, which could potentially lead to legal consequences. Additionally, in some jurisdictions, such actions could be considered unauthorized access, hacking, or a violation of computer security laws.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">If you find a way to bypass paywalls and other measures that protect the website content without permission, it may be seen as a violation of the website's rights and could result in legal action.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"><br clear="none"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I asked Aria the same question and it responds</span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">(edited):</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">It's important to note that bypassing paywalls or circumventing a website's requirements without permission may be considered unethical or even illegal in some jurisdictions. Here are a few points to consider:</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Websites have the right to protect their content and enforce their terms of service.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Unauthorized access to paid content or finding ways to bypass paywalls may violate copyright laws or terms of service agreements.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"><br clear="none"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Engaging in such activities could potentially subject you to legal action by the website owner, such as a lawsuit or other legal consequences.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Harry asked a similar question </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">addressing only circumventing paywalls, </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">and got the response (edited):</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div style="margin-left:30pt"><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Bypassing a paywall of a website without a subscription could potentially be considered a violation of the website's terms of service or terms of use. It may also infringe upon copyright laws or other applicable laws, depending on the jurisdiction. Engaging in such activities could potentially have legal consequences, including the possibility of facing legal action from the website owner. It is always advisable to respect the terms and conditions set by website owners and to seek proper legal means to access content.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624m_-7722894219360314806yiv8948318948yqt52937"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:01 PM Robert Primak <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com" target="_blank">bobprimak@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span></p></div><blockquote style="border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:none none none solid;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt"><div><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">The Boston Globe and the New York Times hide a lot of their content.</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">Then there's the somewhat more problematic case of You Tube.</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)">-- Bob Primak</span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span></p></div></div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624m_-7722894219360314806yiv8948318948m_6154078701515852563yahoo_quoted_0393899464"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 08:25:34 AM EST, Steve Isenberg via LCTG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote: </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><div id="m_-3374881616600062420yiv1114713624m_-7722894219360314806yiv8948318948m_6154078701515852563yiv8990637082"><div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Gentlepeople,</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">This Wednesday as part of the presentation I plan to show how to proceed to web sites that prevent you from accessing their content unless you (a) remove all of your ad-blockers, or (b) subscribe or pay to see the content (paywalls).</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Could you send me (and not the list) the URL of sites you have run into that block your access, and I'll add them to the list I'll use as demonstrations.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Thanks,</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">-steve</span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div><div><p><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(38,40,42)"></span></p></div></div></div><p><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:rgb(38,40,42)">===============================================<br clear="none">::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br clear="none">Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br clear="none">Send to the list: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br clear="none">To subscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br clear="none">Future and Past meeting information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br clear="none">List information: <a 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