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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks for the thoughts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It has now been working for 24 hours<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have no idea what to do with a capacitor even if I had one<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My Amana is, I think, from 1996 and has never had a problem Acquired by Raytheon Manufacturing Company in 1965 and purchased by Goodman Manufacturing in 1997, the Amana major appliance and commercial microwave business was sold to Maytag/Whirlpool Corporation in 2001. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>So I’m pretty sure I bought it when it was Raytheon and got my discount.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Ted Kochanski <tedpkphd@gmail.com> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 27, 2024 5:45 PM<br><b>To:</b> John P. Rudy <jjrudy1@comcast.net><br><b>Cc:</b> Ken Pogran <pogran@alum.mit.edu>; Steve Isenberg <smisenberg@gmail.com>; Lex Computer Group <lctg@lists.toku.us><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] refrig<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>All,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Based on my experience in the distant past with disembodied refrigerator compressors used as vacuum pumps<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>There are two likely candidates --<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>one fixable -- get a replacement capacitor for a handful of $<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-left:30.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>the other the compressor is unable to accelerate due to dirt or some other internal failure -- only fixable by a pro with a new compressor and new refrigerant -- probably a junker<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>My money is on the capacitor as they eventually all fail<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ted<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>PS: the coils being really dirty might make the compressor run longer -- but unlikely to make it draw more current<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 4:39<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span>PM John P. Rudy via LCTG <<a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks for all the details.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I do know to switch the switch to off before moving to on</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It has now been on for 7 hours</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Having the filthy coils would have made the refrig work harder and they are now cleaned</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Ken Pogran <</span><a href="mailto:pogran@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>pogran@alum.mit.edu</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 26, 2024 4:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> John P. Rudy <</span><a href="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>jjrudy1@comcast.net</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><br><b>Cc:</b> 'Steve Isenberg' <</span><a href="mailto:smisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>smisenberg@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>>; 'Lex Computer Group' <</span><a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>lctg@lists.toku.us</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] refrig</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>John,<br><br>My guess is that the problem is with the refrigerator compressor motor or its supporting components. Motors such as these draw far more than the usual current as they start; once they are at running speed, the current draw decreases to normal. (It's why your lights might dim a little bit when your central A/C kicks on, for example.) <br><br>Also, some motors are "capacitor-start", using a capacitor to give the motor an extra "kick." There's usually a centrifugal switch that takes the capacitor out of the circuit once the motor is up to speed.<br><br>If a motor never gets up to speed, it will continue to draw too much current and overload the circuit; eventually the breaker will trip (how fast depends on the degree of overload; it's not like a fuse that blows instantly). <br><br>The motor might not get up to speed because<o:p></o:p></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>The capacitor has gone bad (open or shorted)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>The motor winding has failed in some way<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>The motor shaft has seized due to failure of bearing lubrication (my Mech. E. dad explained to me that so-called "oilite" bearings—made of sintered bronze—are impregnated with oil under pressure at manufacture. They last a long time with no attention but eventually lose their lubrication, resulting in great friction. He had his own trick for extending the life of a motor by <i>temporarily</i> re-lubing such a bearing. Even a ball bearing will eventually fail as the grease it is initially lubricated with eventually dries out.)<o:p></o:p></li><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo3'>The refrigerator's compressor, driven by the motor, has seized, probably for similar reasons.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p>Or, if the centrifugal switch fails, the motor might be running at full speed but the capacitor may still be in the circuit, continuing to draw excessive current.<o:p></o:p></p><p>Ken Pogran<o:p></o:p></p><p>P.S. I trust you know that to reset a tripped breaker, you first move it to the OFF position and then to the ON position. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>John P. Rudy via LCTG wrote on 8/26/24 11:14 AM:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The extra refrig (with a freezer compartment) is in the garage and both it and the separate freezer go to the same outlet box.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>3 days ago the refrig stopped being cold but the light was on so there was power. I didn’t look at the breaker then.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I removed everything from the refrig/freezer and set the dial from6 to 9 and left for the weekend. When I returned last night everything was cold.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>This morning it was warm and the light was off. One breaker was in the middle and I tried to reset it to the left but it wouldn’t hold. I connected the refrig to another circuit and then returned to the breaker and this time it did reset. I returned to the refrig and cleaned the coils. I haven’t pulled it out to try to find the fan. Then the refrig stopped again.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I returned to the circuit breaker and was able to reset it. That worked for 20 minutes and then it flipped. I reset it again and all has been fine for a half hour. I’ll check it again in an hour</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>No water and no damage to the cord.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>The first time the refrig stopped and the light was on the separate freezer was working. When the breaker flipped, both stopped (of course)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>It is an aged Amana refrig</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Steve Isenberg </span><a href="mailto:smisenberg@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><smisenberg@gmail.com></span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 26, 2024 10:56 AM<br><b>To:</b> John P. Rudy </span><a href="mailto:jjrudy1@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><jjrudy1@comcast.net></span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Cc:</b> Lex Computer Group </span><a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><lctg@lists.toku.us></span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] refrig</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>1. What changed between (when it was working and not tripping the circuit breaker) and (now when circuit breaker trips)?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'>2. Does the breaker trip as soon as you plug in the refrigerator or reset the circuit breaker?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>3. Has it been exposed to water (e.g., flooded basement)?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>4. Could the power cord be damaged? (rodents might chew on it)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For #1 I'm wondering if you moved it to a new spot or plugged something else in on the same circuit, and then the problem started.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For #2 if it happens immediately when you plug it in or reset the breaker, this would make me think there might be a short in the refrigerator (which leads to #1, when did this start?)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Trebuchet MS",sans-serif;color:#0B5394'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 10:48<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span>AM John P. Rudy via LCTG <<a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I have an old refrigerator. The circuit breaker has tripped 3 times today. Any suggestions?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>I know I can buy a new refrigerator</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>John</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>===============================================<br>::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br>Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br>Send to the list: <a href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br>To subscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br>Future and Past meeting information: <a href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br>List information: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br>This message was sent to <a href="mailto:s%2Blctglist@smistuff.com" target="_blank">s+lctglist@smistuff.com</a>.<br>Set your list options: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/s+lctglist@smistuff.com" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/s+lctglist@smistuff.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>===============================================<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Send to the list: <a href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>To subscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Future and Past meeting information: <a href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List information: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>This message was sent to <a href="mailto:pogran@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">pogran@alum.mit.edu</a>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Set your list options: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/pogran@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/pogran@alum.mit.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>===============================================<br>::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br>Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br>Send to the list: <a href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br>To subscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br>Future and Past meeting information: <a href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br>List information: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br>This message was sent to <a href="mailto:tedpkphd@gmail.com" target="_blank">tedpkphd@gmail.com</a>.<br>Set your list options: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/tedpkphd@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/tedpkphd@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>