<div dir="ltr">When covid hit, I stopped using cash as much as possible, which was close to 100%. I get gift cards for Market Basket where I get almost all my food supplies. I uses internet banking for most of my purchases. I write very few checks now. On covid I did not feel comfortable dealing with any form of cash. Arnie</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 12:42 AM Robert Primak via LCTG <<a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div></div>
<div dir="ltr">Eliminating $10 and $50 bills would not save money for the government. Quarters, dimes and nickels still cost less to produce than their face vales. Dollar and up coins actually cost more to produce than they might save if everyone used them in place of folding bills. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">The penny is not the only US coin whose acquisition and production costs have gone up recently. Does this mean we should ditch all coins?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><span><b>Coins Cost More to Make Than They're Worth — and the U.S. Mint Is Looking for Solutions</b></span><br></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="https://money.com/coin-costs-us-mint-solutions/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://money.com/coin-costs-us-mint-solutions/</a><span><br></span></div><div><br></div><div dir="ltr">The main issue with changing the composition of coins is vending machines. They weigh the coins to determine their authenticity and value. So do the coin counting machines in banks and grocery stores. Converting all those machines would be a logistical and financial nightmare. US dollar coins have also caused a lot of confusion, due to their similarity in size and weight to quarters. (That said, one local self-service car wash and some coin operated laundries use dollar tokens. These tokens are gold in color. Did they update US official dollar coins?)</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">As for using plastic instead of paper (actually a type of fabric) for folding money, I'd like to see a cost analysis and estimate of durability to determine whether the greater longevity of plastic justifies its higher cost. Don't forget that folding needs increasingly sophisticated anti-counterfeiting measures, which makes plastic even more difficult (and expensive) to use as a substitute. One benefit of plastic is its ability to include holographic technology, or even microchips. Again, at added cost.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I have a dentist who does not use credit cards, due to his cost of subscribing to the network of card reading machines. One local car body shop has the same policy, for the same reason. They also have a general policy of not accepting personal checks, but allowing bank drafts and business checks. What a pain! There are other small businesses which cannot afford to subscribe to card handling services. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If there's a disaster or an extended power outage, businesses which don't accept cash would be out of business completely for the duration, and people would have no way to get groceries, medicines and supplies. It's kind of like having only a cell phone -- an emergency could leave you with no service, while land lines keep working. And locating a cell phone caller is much more difficult for 911 services than locating a true land line customer (not Cable or FiOS VOIP services). In emergencies, often the best (and only) communication services are provided by HAM radio operators. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">For every money-saving "solution" there are new problems.</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">-- Bob Primak</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div>
</div><div id="m_8426715272545715904yahoo_quoted_6514443138">
<div style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
<div>
On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 10:55:54 PM EDT, Allan Sherman via LCTG <<a href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id="m_8426715272545715904yiv0555585362"><div><div dir="ltr">We split our time between Massachusetts and New Zealand. Since 2006, New Zealand coins have included only 10c, 20c, 50c. $1, and $2 coins. Cash purchases are rounded to the nearest 10c. The common bill denominations are $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100, and are printed on plastic which is much more durable than paper. Very little cash is used. Most purchases use debit ATM cards issued by the banks, or conventional credit cards and these transactions are to the penny. New Zealand has completely done away with paper checks. Nearly everyone has a bank account, and bank transfers are used for personal as well as commercial purchases. This is very easy and convenient, and makes a lot of sense to us.<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Allan</div><div><br clear="none"><div dir="ltr" id="m_8426715272545715904yiv0555585362m_-7680866254524789752AppleMailSignature">Sent from my iPhone</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br clear="none"><div><div dir="ltr">On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 10:03 PM Larry Wittig via LCTG <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">This appeared on<br clear="none">
Morning Brew <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:crew@morningbrew.com" target="_blank">crew@morningbrew.com</a>><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Is the penny obsolete?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The penny is like an ashtray in an airplane bathroom—a holdover that<br clear="none">
no one has the energy to nix.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
That’s the thesis of Caity Weaver’s 7,000-word manifesto published in<br clear="none">
New York Times Magazine last weekend, in which she argues that the US<br clear="none">
needs to consign the measly tokens to the dustbin of numismatic<br clear="none">
history. She decided to offer her two cents on the matter after<br clear="none">
learning that producing a single penny costs the US Treasury more than<br clear="none">
three pennies.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The government lost over $94 million last year minting billions of the<br clear="none">
pesky discs, which are used mostly as change for cash purchases ending<br clear="none">
with .99 and…not much else.<br clear="none">
The vast majority are destined to vanish into couch crevices and other<br clear="none">
places of coin oblivion, abandoned by Americans who have no reason to<br clear="none">
carry currency with a face value that amounts to a rounding error<br clear="none">
after centuries of inflation.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Weaver is far from the first commentator to find the status quo<br clear="none">
absurd: She joins a chorus of penny abolitionists that includes<br clear="none">
prominent economists, US Mint officials, lawmakers, and at least one<br clear="none">
POTUS (Obama). But despite years of grumbling about the<br clear="none">
superfluousness of the near-worthless coins and several congressional<br clear="none">
bills to ditch them, nothing has yet killed the penny once and for<br clear="none">
all.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Who’s grasping at pennies?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
“A penny saved is a penny earned” rings true for the Tennessee metal<br clear="none">
manufacturer Artazn, the government’s sole supplier of the zinc blanks<br clear="none">
used to make the 1-cent coins (a penny is made up of 98% zinc coated<br clear="none">
with copper). The company, which was bought by private equity in 2019,<br clear="none">
has raked in $1 billion in revenue since 2008 from selling zinc discs<br clear="none">
to the US Mint.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Artazn’s lobbying on Capitol Hill is the main reason for the penny’s<br clear="none">
endurance, according to retired US Mint Spokesperson Tom Jurkowsky and<br clear="none">
other sources Weaver spoke to. Though the company spent a relatively<br clear="none">
paltry $3 million on coin lobbying efforts, Artazn is the loudest<br clear="none">
voice promoting pro-penny talking points, sponsoring the advocacy<br clear="none">
group Americans For Common Cents, which argues:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The abolition of the penny would negatively impact low-income people<br clear="none">
and the unbanked, who make up a disproportionate amount of cash users,<br clear="none">
by causing stores to round up prices.<br clear="none">
Charities like the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society rely on penny donations<br clear="none">
for fundraising.<br clear="none">
Polls show that the majority of Americans want to keep the penny.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
But many penny opponents claim that these arguments don’t add up to<br clear="none">
much, just like a bucket of pennies.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Down with the penny<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Penny abolitionists point out that cash usage is declining and<br clear="none">
highlight studies showing that even cash-loving consumers would not be<br clear="none">
harmed if prices were rounded to the nearest nickel. Just like some<br clear="none">
after-tax totals would be rounded up by one or two cents, others would<br clear="none">
be rounded down (one study did predict a minuscule price increase in<br clear="none">
aggregate).<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Plus, the US wouldn’t be the first country to ditch the penny:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Canadian merchants say that consumers there have gotten used to the<br clear="none">
rounding system the country implemented when it stopped minting its<br clear="none">
one-cent coin in 2013.<br clear="none">
The US itself previously parted ways with the half-cent coin at a time<br clear="none">
when it was worth more than today’s penny.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Concerns for charities might also be misplaced. When Weaver reached<br clear="none">
out to the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, she was told that the<br clear="none">
organization no longer relies on coin drives and has been more<br clear="none">
successfully using credit card payment roundups to fundraise.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
As for the penny’s supposed popularity, the majority of Americans<br clear="none">
across party lines are on board with ceasing penny production once<br clear="none">
they’re told how much it costs to make them, according to a 2022 poll<br clear="none">
by progressive think tank Data for Progress.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There are some Abe Lincoln stans who worry that the demise of the<br clear="none">
penny would diminish the legacy of the 16th president, whose profile<br clear="none">
graces its obverse. Financial Times reporter Sam Learner proposes<br clear="none">
erecting a copper-plated Lincoln monument made out of melted pennies<br clear="none">
to appease them.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
So, why are shiny new pennies still a thing? Weaver blames government<br clear="none">
inertia. The Fed reflexively orders them from the Treasury, the<br clear="none">
Treasury fulfills the order from the Mint, and Congress lacks the<br clear="none">
political urgency to officially nix them. But she claims there’s one<br clear="none">
person with the power to pull the penny kill switch: According to an<br clear="none">
obscure law Weaver discovered during her research, the Treasury<br clear="none">
Secretary can simply not order any coins she deems unnecessary.—SK<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
>From Larry W: I would also ditch $10 & $50 dollar bills, and dimes.<br clear="none">
===============================================<br clear="none">
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br clear="none">
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br clear="none">
Send to the list: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br clear="none">
To subscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br clear="none">
Future and Past meeting information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br clear="none">
List information: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">
This message was sent to <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="mailto:allanpsherman@gmail.com" target="_blank">allanpsherman@gmail.com</a>.<div id="m_8426715272545715904yiv0555585362yqtfd93100"><br clear="none">
Set your list options: </div><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/allanpsherman@gmail.com" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/allanpsherman@gmail.com</a><div id="m_8426715272545715904yiv0555585362yqtfd42304"><br clear="none">
</div></blockquote></div><div id="m_8426715272545715904yiv0555585362yqtfd28545">
</div></div></div><div id="m_8426715272545715904yqtfd17569">===============================================<br clear="none">::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br clear="none">Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br clear="none">Send to the list: <a shape="rect" href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br clear="none">To subscribe: email <a shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a shape="rect" href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br clear="none">Future and Past meeting information: <a shape="rect" href="http://LCTG.toku.us" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br clear="none">List information: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br clear="none">This message was sent to <a shape="rect" href="mailto:bobprimak@yahoo.com." target="_blank">bobprimak@yahoo.com.</a><br clear="none">Set your list options: <a shape="rect" href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/bobprimak@yahoo.com" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/bobprimak@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none"></div></div>
</div>
</div></div>===============================================<br>
::The Lexington Computer and Technology Group Mailing List::<br>
Reply goes to sender only; Reply All to send to list.<br>
Send to the list: <a href="mailto:LCTG@lists.toku.us" target="_blank">LCTG@lists.toku.us</a> Message archives: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/pipermail/lctg-toku.us/</a><br>
To subscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-subscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-subscribe@toku.us</a> To unsubscribe: email <a href="mailto:lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us" target="_blank">lctg-unsubscribe@toku.us</a><br>
Future and Past meeting information: <a href="http://LCTG.toku.us" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://LCTG.toku.us</a><br>
List information: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/listinfo.cgi/lctg-toku.us</a><br>
This message was sent to <a href="mailto:alp4982@gmail.com" target="_blank">alp4982@gmail.com</a>.<br>
Set your list options: <a href="http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/alp4982@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.toku.us/options.cgi/lctg-toku.us/alp4982@gmail.com</a><br>
</blockquote></div>