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This is really great discussion on Passkeys. There are standards
for Passkeys, but like all standards, interoperability is only as
good as people's interpretation and adherence to the standards.
Also, unfortunately, a very small fraction of websites support
passkeys today so you are still stuck with the other options which
are likely no 2FA, then 2FA via SMS, then 2FA with an authenticator
which ironically demonstrates an inverse relationship between
popularity and security.<br>
<br>
Keep your passkeys safe!<br>
<br>
I do want to point out that it is important that whatever mechanism
you use to store the passkeys should be secure. Biometrics are
common, but if that is not available, please use a strong passphrase
to protect your "vault" and make sure the "vault" is very
protected. There have been exploits in password managers because
the vault data has not been properly protected.<br>
<br>
<br>
What if you have multiple devices?<br>
<br>
As for cross-device synchronization, one thing to keep in mind is
that although it may be less convenient, you can have one passkey
for each device for a particular website. Also, in some scenarios,
you can access a passkey from your mobile device when using a
website.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://allthings.how/how-to-create-and-use-a-passkey-for-another-device-on-windows-11/">https://allthings.how/how-to-create-and-use-a-passkey-for-another-device-on-windows-11/</a><br>
<br>
Not sure if passkeys on another device is universal in the standard
or only for some websites (or passkey managers) that support it.
I've used it successfully for logging into google services, I
believe.<br>
<br>
<br>
How do you get the passkey prompt to show up?<br>
<br>
Also, some websites are less seamless than others. For example, if
you are presented with a username prompt at a website where you have
a passkey, you will have to type in the username (often the e-mail
address associated with the passkey and your account) and after
hitting "submit" or its equivalent, it will prompt you for the
passkey.<br>
<br>
What I do, if you are interested ...<br>
<br>
I happen to use Bitwarden as my password manager, but use Apple for
storing passkeys (works really well if you are in an Apple
ecosystem). Bitwarden's support came much later than Apple's
password manager so I've stayed with Apple. I may play around with
Bitwarden to also store my passkeys as it works on pretty much all
platforms (Windows, Mac, iPhone, presumably Android, has browser
extensions for major browsers, etc).<br>
<br>
<br>
2FA authenticator codes (for sites that use them and don't support
passkeys)<br>
<br>
In theory, Bitwarden can also handle 2FA authenticator codes, but I
recall someone questioning whether this makes sense because if
someone is able to break into your Bitwarden vault to get your
password, they also can do the 2FA part of the authentication. I
happen to use Authy as it does nice device synchronization of the
2FA accounts, but there are some questions related to privacy (most
big ones apparently send extra personal information back to the
mother ship including Google Authenticator) that are making me
consider an alternative like Apple's password app. I believe
Android has much better open source options, but they are often not
available on iOS devices sadly. I would love to get suggestions if
you have them.<br>
<br>
-- Seth<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/17/24 6:06 AM, Robert Primak via
LCTG wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:1211074244.940685.1729159598562@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydp9d7390ecyahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">
<div>
<div>Sorry about the transposition. KeepassDX is the app for
Android.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>As for passkey support for keepass2android and
KeepassDX:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android/issues/2099#issuecomment-2110501145">https://github.com/PhilippC/keepass2android/issues/2099#issuecomment-2110501145</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/Kunzisoft/KeePassDX/issues/1421">https://github.com/Kunzisoft/KeePassDX/issues/1421</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So it's on the radar, but not yet available.
Portability of the Keepass database is supported however,
and there are Android password managers which do use
passkeys. This circles back to Bitwarden and its
open-source fork. </div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">-- Bob Primak</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yahoo_quoted_9516129807" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div
style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 04:15:03 AM EDT, Drew
King <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:dking65@kingconsulting.us"><dking65@kingconsulting.us></a> wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9310580801">
<div>
<p><font size="5">Here are some screenshots and
accompanying description that might help everybody
get on the same page with regard to how the stuff
works and more how much it doesn't work.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">I can log into my Amazon account on a
desktop computer using my passkey that is stored in
my password manager KeepassXC, however I cannot do
the same thing in a browser or in the app on my cell
phone.<br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Not to nitpick, but the Android app
name is <span
style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 0);">KeepassDX
NOT XD</span>.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">There is another very popular Android
app that I use called Keepass2Android. Neither one
of these has been updated to support passkeys
however there has been discussion in their forums
about how to do it only one app is developed by a
single person as far as I can tell and I don't think
he knows how to do what he needs to do.<br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">I have passkey set up on my Amazon
account, and it is stored in my Keepass databases.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Here are some screenshots:</font></p>
<p><font size="5">KeepassXC on Windows, Mac, and Linux
REQUIRES the matching KeepassXC browser extension to
be installed and paired with the database. It is
the browser extension that detects the website
wanting to set up a new passkey, and it intercepts
that communication. The actual Pass Key information
is stored in the database in the advanced section
under additional attributes. Cell phones don't have
browser extensions and the Android app doesn't know
what to do with this data that is stored in the
database.<br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><img src="cid:JwWLKvZ8drLD4dr5dN9t"
yahoo_partid="2.2" alt="" width="1049"
height="509" moz-do-not-send="true"><br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">This next picture is of the Android
software KeepassDX and you can see in the picture
that it sees the passkey information:</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><img src="cid:hIvFA5yMNx24caftOuee"
yahoo_partid="2.3" alt="" width="387" height="877"
moz-do-not-send="true"></font></p>
<p><font size="5">These next shots are from Amazon
trying to log me in using a passkey stored on my
cell phone:</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><img src="cid:YWoxnqqwCogR3CbaqXL5"
yahoo_partid="2.4" alt="" moz-do-not-send="true"><br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><img src="cid:EeCnhzCWAjvXe5FAkq5v"
yahoo_partid="2.5" alt="" moz-do-not-send="true"><br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Amazon and Microsoft are asking me to
use a QR code and scan it with the device that has
the pass key but the phone which can scan QR codes
doesn't know to open my password manager to complete
the task. There is a breakdown in communication.<br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Drew.<br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5"><br clear="none">
</font></p>
<div id="yiv9310580801yqt86364"
class="yiv9310580801yqt8702179343">
<div class="yiv9310580801moz-cite-prefix">On
10/17/2024 3:39 AM, Robert Primak wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9310580801yqt79896"
class="yiv9310580801yqt8702179343">
<div
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"
class="yiv9310580801ydp7ee4e587yahoo-style-wrap">
<div dir="ltr">From what I researched, KeypassXC is
the app for Windows, Mac and Linux, and KeepassXD
is for Android. If Syncthing is also used, the
ecosystem could operate entirely without a Cloud
account. The database could also be stored as the
original or a copy on USB media, which would make
it available to any device as long as you have the
USB storage with the database on it at hand. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">KeypassXC and KeypassXD use the same
database format, but reading with KeypassXD from
an SD Card can be complicated by file system
issues. (SD Cards use a DOS (FAT) format, which
often can't be read by modern Android without
going through some hoops.)</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">KeypassXC and KeypassXD looks like a
fairly complete solution, with the database stored
on some sort of modern USB storage like a flash
drive. An Android phone would also need to be able
to connect the flash drive to USB-C, which is
trivial these days. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Compatibility issues between Google
and Microsoft implementations of passkeys are not
the fault of the standards people. Those companies
are not using the standards suggested by the FIDO
Alliance, but proprietary variations. The fault is
with them, not the Alliance. There is in fact only
one standard officially recommended for passkeys. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- Bob Primak </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9310580801yahoo_quoted_9948118506"
class="yiv9310580801yahoo_quoted">
<div
style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Thursday, October 17, 2024 at 01:46:31 AM
EDT, Drew King via LCTG <a
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us"
class="yiv9310580801moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
moz-do-not-send="true"><lctg@lists.toku.us></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9310580801">
<div>
<p><font size="5">Correct.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Right now 99% of the
people who have implemented passkeys
have no idea where they are or how to
manage them, they just know that they
work somehow.<br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">That is one of the reasons
why it is a good idea to use a single
platform for the use and implementation
of passkeys. Passkeys are still in flux
regarding the way they are managed
because there's no standard for sharing
passkey information between different
products. If you're entirely in an
apple ecosystem then you have
coordination, but if you want to use
even one Windows computer it throws
everything out of balance because
there's no sharing between Windows and
Apple. <br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">My preference is to have
all passkeys stored in my password
manager. Unfortunately, my password
manager is not under management of only
one developer or organization.<br
clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">I use an open source
password manager on my desktop platform
and on my mobile devices and the
developer of the desktop app and the
developer of the mobile app are
different, and they have not coordinated
in any way on how to share and use
passkeys.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">KeepassXC supports
passkeys on Windows, Linux and Mac. The
information stored in the database
however does not coordinate with Android
or Apple mobile devices. Unlike with
BitWarden which develops the desktop app
and the mobile app, Keepass is too open
right now. <br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><font size="5">If you use bitWarden on
your PC and on your phone, you can use
passkeys and have them all stored inside
your BitWarden database rather than
randomly stored in different places on
different devices. Microsoft stores
passkeys one way and Google does it
another way. Right now, the best way to
collect all of your pass keys in one
place so they can be easily managed is
in a password manager that supports
passkeys across all hardware devices.
BitWarden is an example of one company
that provides passKeys across Android,
Apple, Windows, Mac, and Linux.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">Google is trying to make
it easy to use passkeys across Windows
and Android by having you store all of
your password information in their
browser password manager, which many
people don't want to do.</font></p>
<p><font size="5">The passkey rollout I
thought was going to be clean, but it is
not turning out to be that way. The
password manager that I use on my phone,
is coded by only one person and that
makes it very difficult for his
customers to count on him to be able to
implement passkeys with other open
source developers that have no
connection to him.<br clear="none">
</font></p>
<p><br clear="none">
</p>
<p><font size="5">Drew</font><br
clear="none">
</p>
<div id="yiv9310580801yqt06809"
class="yiv9310580801yqt1305243282">
<div class="yiv9310580801moz-cite-prefix">On
10/17/2024 1:13 AM, Rich Moffitt wrote:<br
clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv9310580801yqt31187"
class="yiv9310580801yqt1305243282">
<div>Minor point, but something to keep in
mind: you're not so much deleting the
passkeys from the lost device as you are
invalidating the keys stored on that
device for use on a particular service.
This also means that if you have
passkeys for 5 different web sites on a
single device, you may have to
invalidate the passkeys on each of the 5
sites independently (unless they all use
the same authentication service).
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv9310580801gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr"
class="yiv9310580801gmail_attr">On
Wed, Oct 16, 2024, 10:04 PM Drew King
via LCTG <<a
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:lctg@lists.toku.us"
class="yiv9310580801moz-txt-link-freetext moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">lctg@lists.toku.us</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"
class="yiv9310580801gmail_quote">
<div style="padding-bottom:1px;">
<p>All,</p>
<p>Additional info regarding
Passkeys:</p>
<p>This is an article that covers a
lot of information and answers a
lot of questions about passkeys.
One question that was asked this
morning at the meeting was what
happens if you lose your device
that you installed a passkey on.
If somebody has your device and
they can log into it or unlock it
then they have your passkeys. This
article covers how to log into
your Google account from a
computer and delete passkeys that
are on your lost or stolen device.<br
clear="none">
</p>
<p><a
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/13548313?hl=en&sjid=13375659196123546943-NA"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/13548313?hl=en&sjid=13375659196123546943-NA</a></p>
<p><br clear="none">
</p>
<p><br clear="none">
</p>
<p><img alt="" width="1197"
height="653"
moz-do-not-send="true"></p>
<div>-- <br clear="none">
Drew King <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
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