[Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Looking for sites blocked by paywalls or remove-ad-blockers

[David Lees]

Bob,
I am curious specifically what you mean when you say " all of these tactics
impede the free flow of information. That can also be problematic. The data
silo effect is already an impediment to research and development in many
industries. "  Before I retired and worked for some large companies, if I
wanted technical information as an engineer, the company paid for it
whether it was a book, conference, magazine or technical standard (like
ASTM or IEEE).  The news organizations that are trying to stay alive
through paid subscriptions or ad revenues are not generally the sources of
R&D knowledge.

David Lees

On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 1:42 PM Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Many sites have been adopting the same tactics to force people to turn off
> ad blockers which the subscription sites have been using to force people to
> pay for subscriptions.
>
> The problem is, all of these tactics impede the free flow of information.
> That can also be problematic. The data silo effect is already an impediment
> to research and development in many industries.
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 01:37:52 PM EST, jjrudy1 at comcast.net <
> jjrudy1 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
> I suppose one could make a similar argument, then, about ad-blockers
>
>
>
> *From:* LCTG <lctg-bounces+jjrudy1=comcast.net at lists.toku.us> *On Behalf
> Of *Robert Primak via LCTG
> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2023 1:35 PM
> *To:* 'David Lees' <joeoptics at gmail.com>; carllazarus at comcast.net
> *Cc:* 'Lex Computer Group' <lctg at lists.toku.us>; 'Steve Isenberg' <
> smisenberg at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Looking for sites blocked
> by paywalls or remove-ad-blockers
>
>
>
> Much of the time, I find similar content at sites where I don't have to
> pay for large volumes of content I will never use.
>
>
>
> I agree that if a site has a policy and people try to circumvent that
> policy, it can impact the ability of the site to fulfill its business model
> for making money.
>
>
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 01:16:55 PM EST, <carllazarus at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Exactly my thought.  We may be talking about large entities such as the NY
> Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, etc. but if we want them to
> continue to exist they need to be able to pay their expenses and make some
> money.
>
> -- Carl
>
>
>
> *From:* LCTG <lctg-bounces+carllazarus=comcast.net at lists.toku.us> *On
> Behalf Of *David Lees via LCTG
> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2023 1:12 PM
> *To:* Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Lex Computer Group <lctg at lists.toku.us>; Steve Isenberg <
> smisenberg at gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] Looking for sites blocked
> by paywalls or remove-ad-blockers
>
>
>
> You could also discuss the ethical issues of not paying for things that
> people trying to make a living are doing?
>
> David Lees
> From Pixel 6 Pro
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023, 1:00 PM Robert Primak via LCTG <lctg at lists.toku.us>
> wrote:
>
> You are NOT committing any crime by using most evasion techniques
> available to the general public (not tech-savvy hackers).
>
>
>
> I don't know what Steve has or had in mind, but no one can take any legal
> actions against anyone for publicly discussing these tactics.
>
>
>
> Please refer to You Tube's Terms of Use and Zoom's code of user conduct if
> in any further doubt. Other sites also have terms of use.
>
>
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:52:44 PM EST, Steve Isenberg via LCTG <
> lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Gentlepeople,
>
> After much consideration, discussing with several people, and consulting
> with ChatGPT, I've decided *not* to demonstrate this.  We can discuss the
> situation on Wednesday's Potpourri but I no longer feel comfortable giving
> a demonstration for legal reasons.  My apologies.
>
> I'm open to comments.
>
> -steve
>
>
>
> Here's what I've learned from ChatGPT:
>
> Steve asks ChatGPT:
>
> suppose I have found a way to get around a paywall without paying or
> subscribing, or to get around a site's requirement to disable all ad
> blockers without disabling ad blockers, and I can do this only on my
> computer and without accessing or tampering with the website. Am I
> committing a crime or doing something that would subject me to a lawsuit or
> other legal action by the website owner?
>
>
>
> ChatGPT responds (edited):
>
> Circumventing paywalls or other access restrictions without authorization
> may be a violation of the website's terms of service, which could
> potentially lead to legal consequences. Additionally, in some
> jurisdictions, such actions could be considered unauthorized access,
> hacking, or a violation of computer security laws.
> If you find a way to bypass paywalls and other measures that protect the
> website content without permission, it may be seen as a violation of the
> website's rights and could result in legal action.
>
> I asked Aria the same question and it responds (edited):
>
> It's important to note that bypassing paywalls or circumventing a
> website's requirements without permission may be considered unethical or
> even illegal in some jurisdictions. Here are a few points to consider:
> Websites have the right to protect their content and enforce their terms
> of service.
> Unauthorized access to paid content or finding ways to bypass paywalls may
> violate copyright laws or terms of service agreements.
> Engaging in such activities could potentially subject you to legal action
> by the website owner, such as a lawsuit or other legal consequences.
>
>
>
> Harry asked a similar question addressing only circumventing paywalls, and
> got the response (edited):
>
> Bypassing a paywall of a website without a subscription could potentially
> be considered a violation of the website's terms of service or terms of
> use. It may also infringe upon copyright laws or other applicable laws,
> depending on the jurisdiction. Engaging in such activities could
> potentially have legal consequences, including the possibility of facing
> legal action from the website owner. It is always advisable to respect the
> terms and conditions set by website owners and to seek proper legal means
> to access content.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 12:01 PM Robert Primak <bobprimak at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> The Boston Globe and the New York Times hide a lot of their content.
>
>
>
> Then there's the somewhat more problematic case of You Tube.
>
>
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
>
>
>
>
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 08:25:34 AM EST, Steve Isenberg via LCTG <
> lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Gentlepeople,
>
> This Wednesday as part of the presentation I plan to show how to proceed
> to web sites that prevent you from accessing their content unless you (a)
> remove all of your ad-blockers, or (b) subscribe or pay to see the content
> (paywalls).
>
> Could you send me (and not the list) the URL of sites you have run into
> that block your access, and I'll add them to the list I'll use as
> demonstrations.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -steve
>
>
>
>
>
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