[Lex Computer & Tech Group/LCTG] It doesn't make sense

[arnold peterson]

When covid hit, I stopped using cash as much as possible, which was close
to 100%. I get gift cards for Market Basket where I get almost all my food
supplies. I uses internet banking for most of my purchases. I write very
few checks now. On covid I did not feel comfortable dealing with any form
of cash. Arnie

On Mon, Sep 9, 2024 at 12:42 AM Robert Primak via LCTG <lctg at lists.toku.us>
wrote:

> Eliminating $10 and $50 bills would not save money for the government.
> Quarters, dimes and nickels still cost less to produce than their face
> vales. Dollar and up coins actually cost more to produce than they might
> save if everyone used them in place of folding bills.
>
> The penny is not the only US coin whose acquisition and production costs
> have gone up recently. Does this mean we should ditch all coins?
>
> *Coins Cost More to Make Than They're Worth — and the U.S. Mint Is Looking
> for Solutions*
> https://money.com/coin-costs-us-mint-solutions/
>
> The main issue with changing the composition of coins is vending machines.
> They weigh the coins to determine their authenticity and value. So do the
> coin counting machines in banks and grocery stores. Converting all those
> machines would be a logistical and financial nightmare. US dollar coins
> have also caused a lot of confusion, due to their similarity in size and
> weight to quarters. (That said, one local self-service car wash and some
> coin operated laundries use dollar tokens. These tokens are gold in color.
> Did they update US official dollar coins?)
>
> As for using plastic instead of paper (actually a type of fabric) for
> folding money, I'd like to see a cost analysis and estimate of durability
> to determine whether the greater longevity of plastic justifies its higher
> cost. Don't forget that folding needs increasingly sophisticated
> anti-counterfeiting measures, which makes plastic even more difficult (and
> expensive) to use as a substitute. One benefit of plastic is its ability to
> include holographic technology, or even microchips. Again, at added cost.
>
> I have a dentist who does not use credit cards, due to his cost of
> subscribing to the network of card reading machines. One local car body
> shop has the same policy, for the same reason. They also have a general
> policy of not accepting personal checks, but allowing bank drafts and
> business checks. What a pain! There are other small businesses which cannot
> afford to subscribe to card handling services.
>
> If there's a disaster or an extended power outage, businesses which don't
> accept cash would be out of business completely for the duration, and
> people would have no way to get groceries, medicines and supplies. It's
> kind of like having only a cell phone -- an emergency could leave you with
> no service, while land lines keep working. And locating a cell phone caller
> is much more difficult for 911 services than locating a true land line
> customer (not Cable or FiOS VOIP services). In emergencies, often the best
> (and only) communication services are provided by HAM radio operators.
>
> For every money-saving "solution" there are new problems.
>
> -- Bob Primak
>
> On Sunday, September 8, 2024 at 10:55:54 PM EDT, Allan Sherman via LCTG <
> lctg at lists.toku.us> wrote:
>
>
> We split our time between Massachusetts and New Zealand. Since 2006, New
> Zealand coins have included only 10c, 20c, 50c. $1, and $2 coins.  Cash
> purchases are rounded to the nearest 10c.  The common bill
> denominations are $5, $10, $20, $50, and $100, and are printed on plastic
> which is much more durable than paper.  Very little cash is used. Most
> purchases use debit ATM cards issued by the banks, or conventional credit
> cards and these transactions are to the penny.  New Zealand has completely
> done away with paper checks.  Nearly everyone has a bank account, and bank
> transfers are used for personal as well as commercial purchases. This is
> very easy and convenient, and makes a lot of sense to us.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Allan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2024 at 10:03 PM Larry Wittig via LCTG <lctg at lists.toku.us>
> wrote:
>
> This appeared on
> Morning Brew <crew at morningbrew.com>
>
> Is the penny obsolete?
>
> The penny is like an ashtray in an airplane bathroom—a holdover that
> no one has the energy to nix.
>
> That’s the thesis of Caity Weaver’s 7,000-word manifesto published in
> New York Times Magazine last weekend, in which she argues that the US
> needs to consign the measly tokens to the dustbin of numismatic
> history. She decided to offer her two cents on the matter after
> learning that producing a single penny costs the US Treasury more than
> three pennies.
>
> The government lost over $94 million last year minting billions of the
> pesky discs, which are used mostly as change for cash purchases ending
> with .99 and…not much else.
> The vast majority are destined to vanish into couch crevices and other
> places of coin oblivion, abandoned by Americans who have no reason to
> carry currency with a face value that amounts to a rounding error
> after centuries of inflation.
>
> Weaver is far from the first commentator to find the status quo
> absurd: She joins a chorus of penny abolitionists that includes
> prominent economists, US Mint officials, lawmakers, and at least one
> POTUS (Obama). But despite years of grumbling about the
> superfluousness of the near-worthless coins and several congressional
> bills to ditch them, nothing has yet killed the penny once and for
> all.
>
> Who’s grasping at pennies?
>
> “A penny saved is a penny earned” rings true for the Tennessee metal
> manufacturer Artazn, the government’s sole supplier of the zinc blanks
> used to make the 1-cent coins (a penny is made up of 98% zinc coated
> with copper). The company, which was bought by private equity in 2019,
> has raked in $1 billion in revenue since 2008 from selling zinc discs
> to the US Mint.
>
> Artazn’s lobbying on Capitol Hill is the main reason for the penny’s
> endurance, according to retired US Mint Spokesperson Tom Jurkowsky and
> other sources Weaver spoke to. Though the company spent a relatively
> paltry $3 million on coin lobbying efforts, Artazn is the loudest
> voice promoting pro-penny talking points, sponsoring the advocacy
> group Americans For Common Cents, which argues:
>
> The abolition of the penny would negatively impact low-income people
> and the unbanked, who make up a disproportionate amount of cash users,
> by causing stores to round up prices.
> Charities like the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society rely on penny donations
> for fundraising.
> Polls show that the majority of Americans want to keep the penny.
>
> But many penny opponents claim that these arguments don’t add up to
> much, just like a bucket of pennies.
>
> Down with the penny
>
> Penny abolitionists point out that cash usage is declining and
> highlight studies showing that even cash-loving consumers would not be
> harmed if prices were rounded to the nearest nickel. Just like some
> after-tax totals would be rounded up by one or two cents, others would
> be rounded down (one study did predict a minuscule price increase in
> aggregate).
>
> Plus, the US wouldn’t be the first country to ditch the penny:
>
> Canadian merchants say that consumers there have gotten used to the
> rounding system the country implemented when it stopped minting its
> one-cent coin in 2013.
> The US itself previously parted ways with the half-cent coin at a time
> when it was worth more than today’s penny.
>
> Concerns for charities might also be misplaced. When Weaver reached
> out to the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, she was told that the
> organization no longer relies on coin drives and has been more
> successfully using credit card payment roundups to fundraise.
>
> As for the penny’s supposed popularity, the majority of Americans
> across party lines are on board with ceasing penny production once
> they’re told how much it costs to make them, according to a 2022 poll
> by progressive think tank Data for Progress.
>
> There are some Abe Lincoln stans who worry that the demise of the
> penny would diminish the legacy of the 16th president, whose profile
> graces its obverse. Financial Times reporter Sam Learner proposes
> erecting a copper-plated Lincoln monument made out of melted pennies
> to appease them.
>
> So, why are shiny new pennies still a thing? Weaver blames government
> inertia. The Fed reflexively orders them from the Treasury, the
> Treasury fulfills the order from the Mint, and Congress lacks the
> political urgency to officially nix them. But she claims there’s one
> person with the power to pull the penny kill switch: According to an
> obscure law Weaver discovered during her research, the Treasury
> Secretary can simply not order any coins she deems unnecessary.—SK
>
> From Larry W: I would also ditch $10 & $50 dollar bills, and dimes.
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